Is Jehovah Witness and Jesus Christ The Same Person?
This is a track written by Elder Jon. Leslie of The Church of Jesus Christ
in Portage, Indiana in response to a meeting he had with a JEHOVAH WITNESS.
In their book ( You can live forever in paradise on Earth ), a statement was
made that, Jesus never claimed to be God.
We believe the Bible is the final Authority on any subject,
So, let’s see what it says about this.
Key:
Words written in
blue
are taken out of a publication that you have given me.
( You can live forever in Paradise on Earth )
Words that are underlined are to bring out a special point
Anytime I speak of God I refer to the only true God of the universe.
All scriptures that I give are from the King James Version of the Bible are
in
purple
Jesus Never
Claimed to Be God
( from the book
"You can live forever in Paradise on Earth" pg. 39 paragraph 15)
Well, did Jesus ever say that he was God? No, he never did. Rather, in the
Bible he is called "God's son."
I would like to start off with this statement. The reader is to understand
that just because he didn't say that he was God, we are to believe that he
isn't God. I would like for you to look at the following scripture.
Isaiah 9:6 For
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be
upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The
mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
According to your statement that would mean that this child that was born
unto us was not Jesus Christ but some other that the Bible does not tell.
So, I ask the question who is this verse referring to?
"But isn't Jesus called a god in the Bible?" some-one may ask. This is true.
Yet satan is also called a god. ( 2 Cor.4:4 ) (
pg.40, par. 16)
I would like for you to notice the spelling of the word god. In
Isa.
9:6 the word God is spelled with a capital "G". In the scripture that you
provided, the spelling of god is with a lower case "g". You may say that
there is no differents in the spelling. But notice that in the scriptures
that when the word "god" refers to a demon or satan or any false idol it is
always spelled with a lower case "g". So, with that said why is
Isa. 9:6
spelled with a Big "G" God? There must be something special about
him. Would you not agree?
Isaiah 9:6 For
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be
upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
When we look closer at this verse it brings out the this child is a mighty
God. Now, I know that when anyone brings this up to you, you will say, "See,
he's not the Almighty God, but just some little mighty God." I would like
for you to explain the following verse.
Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which
is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
The question is who is this verse referring to? Now,
you might say that it does not say Almighty God. Look at the definitions of
the two words.
Almighty means: All powerful ( American Heritage Dictionary )
Mighty means : Having great power or imposing or awesome. ( A H D )
The answer to my question is found in the following verses.
Revelation 1:12
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I
saw seven golden candlesticks;
Revelation 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand
upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive
for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Through these verses you should be able to see that they are referring to
Jesus Christ. So, why is Jesus Christ saying that he is the Almighty?
Remember that the person that is Almighty has all power and there is none
that is stronger. So, what happened to the fathers' almightiness? Here is a
problem with your argument. If you say that Jesus was only mighty but not
almighty trying to show a higher level of mightiness then here is some
verses that you might want to consider.
Isaiah 10:20
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such
as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that
smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel,
in truth.
Isaiah 10:21
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Psalms 50:1
The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth
from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou showest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of
the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the
Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
"However, when
this Bible translates God's name by the title "Lord" or "God," it always
puts this title in capital letters,
"LORD" and "GOD."
( pg.42, par. 19 )
Although it is true that I can not find in the scripture where Jesus Christ
was ever called the Almighty God. But I can find where JEHOVAH (or
LORD) is considered the mighty God. (
Gen. 49:24, Deut. 7:2,
Ps. 132:2,5, Hab. 1:12
) So, this
brings us back to the original question found in Isa.9:6. Who is the mighty
God in this verse? Jesus Christ or Jehovah? Just by what we have seen there
must be a problem with the Bible if your beliefs are correct.
1 Corinthians
14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all
churches of the saints.
The next question that I had was, "Who created the heavens and the earth and
everything in it?"
According to your
book it says that the Almighty God did, or Jehovah.
This universe, including the many forms of life on earth, is so much more
complicated than a meat chopper. If such a machine requires a skilled maker,
we can be certain that an Almighty God was needed to create all things.
Should not the credit go to him for what he has done?
Revelation 4:11; Acts 14:15-17; 17:24-26
( pg 36, par. 5 )
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou
hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Acts 14:15 And
saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with
you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the
living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that
are therein:
Acts 14:16 Who
in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
Acts 14:17
Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and
gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food
and gladness.
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is
Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any
thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:26 And
hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of
the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of
their habitation;
All three passages of scripture are very good at showing that God was in
fact the one who created all things. And for this I agree. In the scriptures
that you provided it would seem that Jehovah was the only true creator. And
you use the scripture found in
Rev. 4:11
to show this. Please look at the following scriptures that prove that Jesus
Christ and Jehovah are the same.
The first scripture that I want for you to look at is:
Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace,
from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the
seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,
saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the
Almighty.
Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou
seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in
Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira,
and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and
they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying,
Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
By looking at these verses we see that the one that John spoke with is
the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last. We also see that
this person is the which is, and which was, and which is to come. And
we find in
Rev.
4:8, that the
one that receives the glory and Honor is the Lord God Almighty. This
all would according to your belief would point to Jehovah. But I ask for you
to look at the following verse:
Revelation 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the
first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
This is the question that I had, "When did Jehovah ever die and then become
alive?" The answer is, "He never did." But I find that Jesus Christ died and
rose from the grave. The person that is speaking in
Rev. 2:8
has to be Jesus Christ, the first and the last. And we know that by
Rev. 1:11
that this person is also called the Alpha and Omega, the first and the
last. Looking at
Rev. 1:8
we find that he is also called the which is, and which was, and which is
to come, the Almighty.
And finally we find that Jesus Christ is the one
that gives the Grace and Peace unto the 7 churchs of Asia. So, I ask the
same question, who is the one that made the heavens and the earth? When I
look thru the Bible I find that Jesus Christ is the one who created all
things.
John 1:1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All
things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was
made.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into
the world.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world
knew him not.
John 1:11 He
came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Out of the
publication "Should you believe in the Trinity?" I found where you describle
these verses.
So John 1:1 highlights the quality of the Word, that he was "divine,"
"godlike," "a god," but not the Almighty God. This harmonizes with the rest
of the Bible, which shows that Jesus, here called "the Word" in his role as
God's Spokesman, was an obedient subordinate sent to earth by his Superior,
Almighty God.
(pg26, article "the word was God")
At John 1:1
there are two occurrences of the Greek noun the-os' (god). The first
occurrence refers to Almighty God, with whom the Word was ("and the Word [lo'gos]
was with God [a form of the-os']"). This first the-os' is preceded by the
word ton (the), a form of the Greek definite article that points to a
distinct identity, in this case Almighty God ("and the Word was with [the]
God").
(pg27, article "the word was God")
If your beliefs are correct than according to you Jesus Christ was the word
and Jehovah was the Almighty God. Then this would mean that the word made
the Heavens and the earth and not Jehovah. Because Jehovah never came unto
his own, or never came in this world. Only, according to you, the son of God
came down to his own, and was never received. Also, we see that in verse 9
talks about the light. This true light we find is Jesus Christ. And this is
the same person that is found in verse 10.
So, then it brings me back to who made the heavens and the earth?
Isaiah 44:8
Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and
have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me?
yea, there is no God; I know not any.
According to your beliefs than Jehovah must have been telling us a lie if
the son was consider a God also.
1 John 5:7 For
there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Notice that the verse says that in "heaven" there are three that bear
record. The Father ( which you say is Jehovah ), The Word ( which you say is
the son, Jesus Christ ), and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. This
is very plain to see. The verse does not say that they agree in one but says
that they are one. This lets me know that Jesus Christ and the Father
are one and the same.
When I had talked with some of your people I had asked them if they believed
in baptism? They were very proud to say that they did, and I was pleased to
hear that you do. I also, believe that a person must be baptised to wash
away the past sins of our life. By doing so we follow the example that Jesus
Christ set down for us, as he was baptised. But I wonder on what verse do
you base your beliefs on. When I look in the world I find that their are
many people that baptise just like we do, in water. The only differance in
baptisms is what name they baptise them in. Most religion that I have read
about follow the scripture found in Matt.28:19.
And I would assume that this verse would be the one verse that you would use
also, because the Father is found in it.
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto
me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and,
lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every
one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Looking at these verses I find that Jesus gives his disciples a commandment
to go out teaching people and to Baptize them. In the past few years the
question that I have asked was, "why did peter not tell the people to be
baptised in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost like he was
commanded?" Did satan play a part in this deception or did peter and the
other disciples know that Jesus Christ is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Lets look at the commandment that Jesus gave to his disciples. Notice that
in
Matt. 28:19,
Jesus says,"baptizing them in the name" Why didn't he say names
if Jehovah is the father and Jesus Christ is the Son. The word "name"
is singular.
Singular means: Being only one; individual ( American Heritage Dictionary )
The reason that Peter and the other disciples preached what they preached
was because their understanding had been open to the scriptures. They knew
that Jesus Christ is the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. Lets look at
what Lukes' account of the same commandment that Matthew wrote about.
Luke 24:44 And
he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was
yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the
law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:45 Then
opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved
Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name
among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
When Jesus Christ gave the commandments found in Matthew he left out some
other important information. So, thank God for Luke. If our understanding
has not been opened to the scriptures than this is nothing more than a
mystery. You see when the disciples baptised anyone in the name of Jesus
Christ they fulfilled the scripture found in Matt. 28:19.
Because the name of the father is Jesus Christ.
John 5:43 I
am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall
come in his own name, him ye will receive.
If the Father's name is Jehovah then why did the "son of Jehovah" or "God
the son" come in the name of Jesus Christ? Would you agree that he should
have come in Jehovah if it wasn't God himself? In
Isa. 9:6 said that this child that was born was going to be called the everlasting
Father. Who is this everlasting father that was spoken about in this verse?
If you agree that Jesus Christ was spoken of in this verse, than he must be
also, Jehovah.
Isaiah 40:28
Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the
LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is
weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
The only way that you can disprove this is by saying that there is two
everlasting fathers. Then the question is which father is which? Or, you
will say that Jesus Christ never said that he was the everlasting God. But
the scripture tells us that this would be a mystery but was revealed unto us
through Jesus Christ.
Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the
preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which
was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according
to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations
for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever.
Amen
Another set of scriptures that proves that Jesus Christ and the Father are
the same is found in
John 14:5-7.
John 14:5
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we
know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus
saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
When did Thomas ever see the Father? The only time that Thomas had seen the
father was when he looked at Jesus Christ. By looking into brochures that I
had received from you they try to explain this by saying that Jesus Christ
and the Father were in agreement with each other. But look at what Philip
ask Jesus Christ.
John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Philip asks the very same question that we find ourselves asking today. Show
us the Father. What was Jesus Christs' responds to this question. When you
seen me you have seen the father.
John 14:9 Jesus
saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not
known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and
how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words
that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth
in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else
believe me for the very works' sake.
Jesus comes out very clearly and states that when you have seen him you have
seen the Father. Was he trying to say that he believed in the same things or
was Jesus Christ clearly saying that he is Jehovah? Look at the world around
us, just because you have seen me and even know my personality, does this
mean that you would know who my father if he was to pass you by on the
street? No. But this is how you explain this verse.
We must understand the time that Jesus Christ was walking upon the earth. If
any person would have came out and said that they were Jehovah, then that
person would have been taken out and stoned. This is why God came to them in
a different name. Just like when God came to Abraham, Isaac, and unto Jacob
by the name of Almighty God, and then came to the Moses as Jehovah. (Exodus
6:3) If God
would have came to Abraham, or Isaac, or even Jacob by any other name except
for Almighty God they would not have received him. In the Old testament
Jehovah came unto his servants by many different names.
Exodus 3:13 And
Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and
shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they
shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exodus 3:14 And
God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say
unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Jeremiah 23:6
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this
is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
( or Jehovah-tsidkenu ) (Smith Bible dictionary)
So in conclusion I find that Jesus
Christ and Jehovah are in fact the same person. I also, see that in the Old
Testament God came to his people by different names, but when he came down
in the flesh he was always called Jesus Christ. In
Isa. 7:14
it
reads:
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall
conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
And the word Immanuel or Emmanuel means: God with us. And with no doubt that
this person is Jesus Christ.
I know that this letter may cause some anger to rise up or may be confusing
to some. I hope that you take the scriptures that I have given and test your
belief as I have done to see if is the true gospel. If there is any
questions that you would like to prove to me or ask for futher
understanding, feel free to contact this website.
The Church of Jesus Christ
Elder Jon Leslie
Portage, IN
Bis. Jarret R. Spence, Pastor